Podcast episode: Engaging men in workplace gender equity

Speaker One: All right, let’s jump right in. Today, we’re going to be doing a deep dive into men’s perspectives on workplace gender equity, and we’ve got some awesome source material to work with. We’ve got this global survey from WORK180 combined with some really insightful expert commentary.

Speaker Two: Yeah, it’s going to be really fascinating.

Speaker One: Yeah, it is. It really gets to the heart of how men view these efforts, both the positives and the challenges. We’re really going beyond those surface-level feel-good statements about equality and digging into what are the real concerns and hopes that men have when it comes to building a more equitable workplace.

Speaker Two: Yeah, exactly. It all starts with this question that the survey asked, and on the surface it seems so simple: efforts to ensure equitable opportunities and fair treatment for all genders in the workplace are important. Now, you’d think everyone would say yes to this, right? And actually the vast majority did, a whopping 81% of men agreed, but then it gets interesting. Even within that agree group, there are a lot of nuances, and even anxieties, about how these efforts are actually playing out in the real world. And then for the 19% who disagreed, their reasons really reveal some pretty fascinating insights into the barriers to gender equity.

Speaker One: Yeah, so let’s start with that disagree group. What are the top concerns that are driving their skepticism?

Speaker Two: So, the survey really pinpointed three primary concerns among these men. And the first one is this perceived threat to meritocracy, 78% of this group expressing this worry that gender equity efforts lead to a system where people are promoted or rewarded based on their gender rather than their skills and accomplishments.

Speaker One: Right? And this leads us to the second major concern that came up, which is this fear of reverse discrimination. 68% of the men who disagree with gender equity efforts worry they’ll be discriminated against because of their gender. So, it’s like, in their minds, the pendulum swinging too far in the other direction and now they’re at a disadvantage.

Speaker Two: Exactly. And that brings us to the third major concern, which is really closely tied to the first two: this perception that gender equity efforts disproportionately benefit women and marginalized groups.

Speaker One: Yeah, you know, it’s interesting because you have the anecdotes that people tell, this super qualified PhD who didn’t get the job, supposedly because the company wanted to prioritize diversity, which is a perception that sometimes leads to some pushback against DEI initiatives. And those DEI initiatives stand for diversity, equity, and inclusion, just to be clear for anyone who’s not familiar. A pretty significant percentage of men, specifically white men, tend to believe that women already have equal opportunities in the job market, but do those anecdotes actually reflect what’s happening more broadly?

Speaker Two: Yeah. I mean, it’s easy to get caught up in those stories, right? But we really need to look beyond them to the bigger picture. The 10th anniversary edition of the Women in the Workplace report by McKinsey and lean.org makes this pretty clear. It’s a sobering prediction: at this rate, it would take another 48 years to reach true gender and racial parity in senior leadership roles.

Speaker One: Wow! So that’s almost half a century that we’re looking at? Wow, that puts it in perspective. And I think this perception where certain groups are given an unfair advantage and men are left behind is often rooted in this lack of understanding of how these efforts can benefit everyone in the long run.

Speaker Two: Exactly. And I bet some of the ways that companies are implementing these initiatives might actually be unintentionally fueling those things, those vague hiring criteria or promotion processes that we see all the time.

Speaker One: Absolutely. But before we get into that, I kind of want to shift our focus to the men who do agree with gender equity efforts. Are they all fully on board, or are there some hidden complexities there, too?

Speaker Two: Well, that’s where things get even more interesting, because you see, even among the supporters, there are challenges and concerns and even some internal conflicts that we need to unpack. In fact, only 0.5% of the agree group reported facing zero barriers to fully engaging in these efforts. So that means there’s a lot more going on beneath the surface than a simple yes or no to gender equity.

Speaker One: Okay, now I’m really intrigued. What are some of those hidden challenges that even the agree group are wrestling with?

Speaker Two: Well, some of their concerns actually mirror those of the disagree group. For example, 41% of those who agree are still worried about that potential impact on meritocracy. And 26% of this group also expressed concern that efforts might unintentionally disproportionately benefit women and marginalized groups. This doesn’t mean they’re against those groups, it just reflects this desire for fairness and concern that the pendulum might swing too far in the other direction.

Speaker One: Right. And I imagine this concern is only amplified when companies don’t do a good job of communicating the broader benefits of gender equity for everyone, not just specific demographics.

Speaker Two: Absolutely. It’s about highlighting that a more equitable workplace is a better workplace for everyone, regardless of gender. It’s about fostering a culture of respect, inclusion, and opportunity for all. And, you know what else really stood out to me about this agree group? 29% of them actually worry that these efforts might inadvertently cause division and resentment among employees.

Speaker One: That’s such a crucial point, and it circles back to what we were discussing earlier about the importance of thoughtful implementation and clear communication. If companies aren’t careful, they can actually create more tension and conflict than unity through their gender equity initiatives. It’s a good reminder that good intentions aren’t enough. We need strategic action, open dialogue, a genuine commitment to creating this culture of respect and understanding. But, even with those good intentions, it seems like there are still barriers preventing many men who agree from fully engaging in these efforts.

Speaker Two: And the survey data actually sheds light on some of the specific challenges. For instance, a whopping 48% of the agree group admitted that they just weren’t sure how to contribute. They support the concept of gender equity, but they lack clear guidance on how to translate that support into meaningful action.

Speaker One: It’s like they’re standing on the sidelines, ready to play, but no one’s given them the playbook or shown them where to line up.

Speaker Two: Exactly. That could be so frustrating. It highlights this need for employers to provide clear pathways for engagement. Think allyship training, mentorship programs, opportunities to participate in diversity and inclusion initiatives.

Speaker One: Yeah, but it’s not just about providing opportunities, it’s also about addressing the fear factor. The fear of backlash, you know. 47% of the agree group expressed concern about potential negative repercussions for speaking up or advocating for gender equity, and for those who neither agree nor disagree, that fear skyrockets to 93%.

Speaker Two: Wow. It’s crazy. Those numbers really highlight how pervasive this fear is. It suggests that we’ve got this culture of silence around gender equity, where people are afraid to express their views or ask questions for fear of being labeled or ostracized.

Speaker One: So we’re back to that critical need for psychological safety. People need to feel like they can voice their thoughts and concerns without being punished or shamed. But it seems like we’re still a long way from achieving that level of openness and trust, especially when you consider this next statistic. This one is a real eye-opener. 69% of men who agree with gender equity efforts have actually been made to feel unwelcome in discussions about the topic.

Speaker Two: Wow. Can you believe that? That’s huge.

Speaker One: One respondent talked about feeling like he was walking on eggshells, constantly worried about saying the wrong thing and being labeled as part of the problem. And another one mentioned being shut down and dismissed when he tried to ask genuine questions about gender-inclusive language. It’s kind of heartbreaking to hear those stories. It shows that we’re failing to create spaces where men can engage in these conversations in a way that feels safe, respectful, and productive. And that’s a huge missed opportunity. We need to be inviting men into this dialogue, not shutting them down.

Speaker Two: I couldn’t agree more. We need to create a space where everyone feels valued, heard, and respected, regardless of their gender or their initial stance on gender equity. It’s about recognizing that we’re all on this journey together, and we need all hands on deck. And you know what? The survey actually revealed this really surprising glimmer of hope within this disagree group.

Speaker One: I love a good glimmer of hope. Tell me more.

Speaker Two: 42% of these men are actually open to discussions about gender equity if employers provide safe spaces for those conversations.

Speaker One: Wow, that’s actually a pretty significant number. It sounds like we’ve uncovered a lot of challenges and complexities, but also some real opportunities for growth and progress. So what can employers actually do to address these concerns and create a workplace where men feel empowered in the fight for gender equity? And that is where we’ll pick up in part two of our deep dive. We’ll be diving into those practical, actionable steps that employers can take to create a more inclusive and equitable workplace for everyone. So stay tuned.

Speaker One: Welcome back. So we spent part one uncovering all those complexities of men’s perspectives on gender equity.

Speaker Two: Yeah, pretty eye-opening it was. But now, I’m ready to get into solutions.

Speaker One: Me, too. And that’s what we’re going to be talking about in part two. You know, we’ve laid out the concerns, the fears, the misunderstandings. Right? Now let’s talk about how to bridge those gaps and create a workplace where everyone feels valued and empowered.

Speaker Two: I’m all ears.

Speaker One: Okay. So the great thing is the survey data itself actually offers this roadmap for change. And one of the most common themes that emerged from the responses was this need for safe, open, and inclusive discussions about gender equity.

Speaker Two: Yeah, that makes sense. You can’t solve a problem if people are too afraid to even talk about it.

Speaker One: Exactly. But creating that kind of environment takes more than just good intentions. It takes a deliberate and multifaceted approach. And the survey respondents, particularly those men who are already supportive of gender equity efforts, offered some really insightful suggestions on how to foster that sense of psychological safety.

Speaker Two: Okay, I’m intrigued. What kind of practical strategies did they suggest?

Speaker One: Well, one of the most popular recommendations was the use of anonymous feedback mechanisms. Think online surveys, suggestion boxes, where people can voice their concerns and ideas without fear of reprisal.

Speaker Two: Oh, yeah. That’s a great idea. Especially for people who might be hesitant to speak up in a more public setting. It gives them a voice without putting them in the spotlight.

Speaker One: Exactly. It allows people to share their honest perspectives without worrying about being judged or penalized, and it can provide really valuable insights for companies who are trying to understand the real concerns and needs of their employees.

Speaker Two: What other tactics did they suggest?

Speaker One: Another key theme was the need for clear accountability measures. Publicly shared DEI data and goals, with a focus on intersectionality.

Speaker Two: Now, for people who might not be familiar with that term, can you explain what intersectionality means?

Speaker One: Yeah, intersectionality basically means recognizing that gender isn’t the only factor at play. It intersects with race and other identities, creating these unique experiences of advantage and disadvantage.

Speaker Two: Right. So it’s not enough to just say we’re committed to diversity. Companies need to show how they’re measuring progress, what specific targets they’re aiming for, and how they’re ensuring equity across different groups.

Speaker One: Absolutely. Transparency is key. When employees can see the data and the plan, they’re less likely to feel like things are happening in a secretive or arbitrary way. Like shining a light on the process so that everyone feels like they’re in the loop and can see how their contributions fit into the bigger picture.

Speaker Two: Exactly. And it’s not just about setting goals, either. It’s about communicating progress regularly and addressing any misconceptions or concerns that might come up along the way. So, beyond these big-picture strategies, what about some more specific actionable steps that employers can take?

Speaker One: One thing that came up repeatedly was the need for practical education and resources. Remember, almost half of the men who supported gender equity efforts said they weren’t even sure how to contribute. So, bridging that knowledge gap is essential. It’s about empowering people with the tools and information they need to become effective allies.

Speaker Two: Exactly. So what did they suggest in terms of education initiatives?

Speaker One: They really emphasized the need for clear, concise information that’s easily accessible. Think summaries, guides, workshops that break down complex concepts like unconscious bias or inclusive leadership into bite-sized pieces. We don’t want to overwhelm people with dense academic jargon or lengthy reports. Keep it practical, relatable, relevant to their everyday work lives.

Speaker Two: Exactly. And they also stress the importance of training that goes beyond that surface-level awareness. It’s about developing real skills for inclusive communication, active listening, addressing microaggressions. So it’s not just about checking a box, it’s about equipping people with the tools and knowledge they need to be agents of change within their teams and departments.

Speaker One: And creating a safe learning environment is also crucial. The survey quotes really highlighted this. People need to feel comfortable asking questions, admitting they don’t know something, even making mistakes, without fear of judgment.

Speaker Two: Yeah, it’s about fostering a growth mindset where everyone is seen as a learner, regardless of their current level of understanding. So, we’ve talked about open dialogue and education, what other actionable steps can employers take?

Speaker One: Good question. Well, another major theme was the need for clear and consistent communication about the benefits of gender equity for all employees. Remember, a lot of men, especially those who were skeptical, saw these initiatives as a zero-sum game, where any gains for women automatically meant losses for men. It’s that fear of being left behind or having opportunities taken away.

Speaker Two: Yeah. So how do you combat that perception and highlight that win-win potential of gender equity?

Speaker One: Well, one really effective strategy is to showcase real success stories. The survey found that respondents were particularly interested in hearing from men who had personally benefited from gender equity initiatives. So, men who’ve taken advantage of flexible work arrangements or benefited from parental leave policies or thrived in a more inclusive workplace culture. It’s about making those benefits tangible and relatable, showing that these initiatives aren’t just abstract ideals, but they can have this real, positive impact on people’s lives.

Speaker Two: Absolutely. And the respondents also emphasized the importance of moving beyond those symbolic gestures and actually tackling those systemic barriers to equity. Think fair and transparent recruitment processes, clear pay policies, flexible work arrangements that benefit all genders, not just women. It’s about walking the walk, not just talking the talk, demonstrating that genuine commitment to creating a workplace where everyone has the opportunity to thrive, regardless of their gender.

Speaker One: And a crucial part of that commitment is recognizing and rewarding authentic engagement. If we want people to step up and be allies, we need to show them that their contributions are valued, and that they won’t be punished for speaking up or advocating for change.

Speaker Two: Absolutely. And it’s not just about individual recognition, either. It’s about normalizing these behaviors within the company culture. Think highlighting male allies in company communications, showcasing examples of inclusive leadership, celebrating teams that are actively working to create a more equitable environment. So, it’s about weaving those values into the fabric of the organization, so they become part of the DNA, not just an add-on program.

Speaker One: Exactly. So far, we’ve focused on creating a culture that’s ripe for change, where men feel safe and supported in engaging with gender equity. But how do we actually activate that allyship and turn those good intentions into meaningful action? That leads us into the final part of our deep dive, where we’ll explore the power of male allyship and how to unleash its full potential. So stay tuned.

Speaker One: All right, so we’re back for the final part of our deep dive into men’s perspectives on workplace gender equity. Time to bring it all home. We’ve uncovered some real challenges, explored some potential solutions, and now it’s time to talk about what I think is the true game-changer: male allyship.

Speaker Two: Okay, let’s talk about it.

Speaker One: This is where the rubber meets the road, you know? We know from the survey data and all the expert commentary that engaged male allies are absolutely essential for creating truly inclusive and equitable workplaces. In fact, get this: organizations with strong male allyship are 300% more likely to foster environments where equity and inclusion thrive.

Speaker Two: Wow. 300%? That’s not just a nudge in the right direction, that’s a full-on cultural shift.

Speaker One: It is. So, how do we unlock that potential? How do we move beyond those passive head nods of agreement and inspire men to become active champions for gender equity? Well, the survey respondents, especially those men who are already on board with gender equity, offered a wealth of insights into how companies can do this, how they can cultivate and empower those male allies.

Speaker Two: Great. I’m listening.

Speaker One: One of the key themes that emerged was this need for visibility. Men want to see other men stepping up and championing these values. It’s that “If he can do it, I can do it, too” mentality. We need those role models, those everyday heroes, who demonstrate that allyship isn’t just this abstract concept, but it’s an integral part of successful leadership.

Speaker Two: So how can companies boost that visibility?

Speaker One: Well, one tactic is to showcase male allies in all their communication channels: company newsletters, leadership profiles, even internal social media platforms. Highlight their contributions, share their stories, make it crystal clear that this type of engagement is valued and respected. It’s about shifting the narrative, moving away from this outdated idea that gender equity is solely a women’s issue. We need to show that men have a vested interest in this, too, and their voices and actions can make a real difference.

Speaker Two: Right? Another really powerful strategy is to integrate equity goals into performance reviews. This sends a strong message that allyship isn’t just an optional extra; it’s an expectation for everyone, regardless of gender. When employees see that their contributions to building a more inclusive workplace are recognized and rewarded, they’re far more likely to make it a priority.

Speaker One: It’s about aligning individual goals with organizational values, making it clear that creating a more equitable workplace is everyone’s responsibility, not just HR or a diversity task force. And it sounds like celebrating those inclusive actions, both big and small, is really crucial.

Speaker Two: Yeah, we need to normalize those everyday allyship behaviors, whether it’s advocating for flexible work policies, challenging sexist language, or simply speaking up when someone witnesses something that’s just not right.

Speaker One: Exactly. When people see those actions acknowledged and celebrated, it creates this ripple effect and inspires others to do the same. It’s about creating a culture where allyship becomes ingrained in the company’s DNA, the norm, not the exception. So we’ve talked about all these strategies for cultivating male allyship. I’m kind of curious about the long-term vision here. What does a workplace where men are truly engaged in gender equity, what does it actually look and feel like?

Speaker Two: Well, it’s a workplace where men don’t see gender equity as some kind of threat, but as a tremendous opportunity. It’s a place where they feel comfortable challenging those outdated norms and advocating for policies that benefit everyone, not just a select few.

Speaker One: We all have a role to play in this journey, regardless of our gender. Whether you’re a CEO, a manager, an individual contributor, you have the power to be an ally, to speak up, to create positive change in your sphere of influence. So, what does all this mean for you, our listener? It’s about taking these powerful insights from the WORK180 survey and turning them into concrete action. It’s about building a workplace where everyone feels valued, respected, and empowered to reach their full potential.

Speaker Two: That’s a goal worth striving for.

Speaker One: It is. Thanks for joining us on this deep dive, and as you continue on your journey, we encourage you to visit WORK180’s website for more information and resources.